Manual v Auto in a performance car?

Discussion in 'General chat' started by Wynne71, Oct 27, 2024.

  1. Wynne71
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    Wynne71 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Those of you who know me will probably see behind my slightly veiled question, however, I have been considering the best scenario for a sporty car, one that is mainly used for pleasure/holidays and the odd work trip.
    The ZF8 boxes in the current M440i and the previous 440i are excellent, a great mix of smooth changes when in Comfort, and reasonably crisp changes when in Sport mode. Looking at the spec between a manual and an auto in the current sportier BMW range shows that the autos are quicker and more efficient.
    However, the engagement is not great. There is always the sensation that the computer is altering things to suit, which is fine in a general cruise, but does get a little "meh" when looking to feel the driving experience, rather that I am being shepherded somewhat.

    I've worked out that the M440i has done exactly 8,150 miles per year since it was new in 2022, so relatively limited mileage given that a pair of Alfa's have taken the brunt of the work since Sept '23.

    What are the collective thoughts and experiences of driving the current range of autos compared to the manual versions? To be fair, BMW don't make the most clinical of manual boxes, remember that from my old 2008 E92.

    The reason I ask is that I am rapidly coming up to two years in the G22 and am considering/possibly/maybe changing to a more focused car, one that may have a manual and ZF8 option. I would like to feel a little more "fizz" when driving the car, a little more engagement and control of the car. 100% no decisions made, I really am trying to do my homework before even looking for a test drive.
     
  2. The_Master
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    The_Master

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    I have temporarily returned to a manual (in an Audi A3) after having an Auto for 5 years a ZF8 and TBH can't be arsed to change gear, it's OK driving a manual on the open road but as soon as there's a queue it gets tiresome very quickly...didn't feel the Auto took much away from the driving experience....
     
  3. Wynne71
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    Wynne71 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    The Alfa is a manual, and that is used for work driving, so mainly motorways and rush hour traffic, motorway jams etc. I thought the gearbox would get on my nerves a little, but the torque of the diesel engine makes it easy to hold a gear longer, even at slower speeds.
    Driving the Honda made me think of how disengaging the experience is, sort of similar in the BMW.
     
  4. edthefed
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    edthefed WARLORD

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    I suspect manual boxes will die out in mainstream cars.

    Youngsters round here all asking for Driving Instructors with automatic cars - manuals are "too difficult".

    As EVs take over thats another generation that will not be familiar with manuals.

    I was 54 before i bought me first automatic - no choice as the G30 only came with an automatic.

    Do i miss manual boxes ? No

    Would i go back to a manual ? No
     
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  5. mystic sport
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    mystic sport

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    I think an auto with good software/mapping makes the world of difference.

    My comparison is an m235i I had as a loan car for the day when my own car was in for service last week.

    In that instance I wish the car had a manual box (not sure if it can be optioned with one though) because the ZF8 fitted with the software on it just felt a bit uninspiring.

    It kind of reminded me of my F10s with auto boxes. I tried using the manual paddles and it (to me) just didn’t work and felt far more natural and happy to be left in full auto so kind of detracted from the sporty nature that the car promotes.

    I will assume that the box in my own car is pretty much the same thing but the software on it makes it very different. It feels very DCT like and pretty much gives me the same feeling I had in my F10 M5. The paddles allow it to work exactly like the DCT, it doesn’t hang on to gears either when changing up or down too long like I found in the 235. I have full control over exactly what it is doing. In fact I have probably used it in proper auto mode no more than 5 times in three years which is probably about the same as I did with my m5.

    So in short, I think an auto with very good mapping can work brilliantly in a performance car - and I am a diehard manual fan, but I now have to be content with using the manual box in my Citroen relay van :rolleyes:
     
  6. mystic sport
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    mystic sport

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    If you haven’t tried one and would like to stay with bmw then have a shot in a G80 or 81 and leave it in full manual and feel the difference. It is genuinely night and day and compared to the 235i (not sure the engine in that car as out of touch with new bmw products these days) I had is so much quicker. Think it might hit your sweet spot.
     
  7. Spuffington
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    Spuffington Staff Member Admin Site Supporter

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    I'm not at all surprised that you're asking the question as I know you have found the 440i a mixture of impressive and a bit soulless, plus your comment on my new vehicle as regards the manual box.

    In all honesty, I will let you know in 10 days time :)

    I'm both really excited and apprehensive about my new acquisition. It's been so long since I owned a manual (probably my E89 Z4 23i). It was fun having that but equally sometimes frustrating on the M11 traffic jam on the way down to LCY. This car is going to be mainly for short trips around locally plus the odd trip to LHR or LCY (c. 60-90mins each way). It'll be the traffic that'll be the issue. But locally it should be fun.

    Let's see. I'll keep you posted.
     
  8. Wynne71
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    Wynne71 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Interesting comments and perspectives, thanks chaps. Have driven up to Keswick this morning, the G22 has been as excellent as always, 45mpg with some cruise control etc. Almost the perfect compromise car.
    Good point @mystic sport regarding driving a M car with the ZF8, I’d suspect the software will be quite different. I’ve read that an Alpina flash can be added to these boxes, would change the approach and feel. However, while a car is under warranty I’d be a little apprehensive of that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2024
  9. Adie
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    Adie WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Freudian slip? :)
     
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  10. boylucifer
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    boylucifer

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    Debated on whether to comment here or not given that I’m absolutely not talking about performance cars in regards to manual boxes, but thought I’d chuck my tuppence worth in anyway.

    Last 4 cars have been 2016 320D manual saloon, 2019 320D manual saloon (still have this one), 2022 420D auto coupe, 2024 M340D auto estate. All RWD up to the X Drive 340D. In terms of those cars and the BMW boxes I think the manuals have been great at motorway speeds and in non-busy driving, however my commute for the last 3 years has been non dual carriageway A-road rather than motorway so most of it with 60mph limit, and actually a ton of dropping down to 35-45mph and often not very much at 60mph. In this particular commute I have a massive preference for the auto boxes of the 2 more recent cars and genuinely couldn’t wait to swap from the 3 into the auto 4 series after having done that commute in it for the first 8 months in this job and feeling like the car was never happy spending long in any gear.

    When pushing hard though I guess it’s all gonna be down to your own preference. Experience of manual boxes is they are crisp enough and mostly easy enough to drive, but auto is another level of easy so lazy old me definitely prefers it.
     
  11. Wynne71
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    Wynne71 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Had a long chat with the sales folk at Sytner this morning. The G22 was in for a service, so took the time to unpick some options.
    Even though the manual M2 was a more expensive car from new, a cost option over the auto, they are currently cheaper than the auto equivalent as a used car. Reason being that they are more of a “specialist” option for the retail market.
    Food for thought.
     
  12. Spuffington
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    Spuffington Staff Member Admin Site Supporter

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    Go on - do it! :)
     
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  13. Wynne71
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    Wynne71 WARLORD Site Supporter

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    Need to drive both versions first......
     
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  14. bbob1
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    I suspect the manual M2 will be in higher demand in the future if it follows the same pattern of other cars such as Porsche. Long term it could end up being both cheaper to buy now and lower depreciation than the auto.
     
  15. idrussell
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    Considering how good most auto gear boxes are now and how congested our roads are I would take an auto everyday including in a sports car. For years I resisted getting one - my first was the E61 530i which was good but the auto in both the 640d's I have owned and in my wife's new X1 are great. Long gone are the days of the 3 speed auto's found in American hire cars thankfully. My old Porsche while a joy to drive on an early Sunday morning is a royal pain in traffic on the few occasions I use it day to day. I never thought I would say but if I go for a newer 911 or M car my preference would definitely be auto (although not a tiptronic Porsche)
     

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